Squad assessment

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yellowfever
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Re: Squad assessment

Post by yellowfever »

SfcFPA wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:20 pm I hesitate to say this for fear of a backlash but if it hadn't been for Liam's careful management of the budget over the past two years and his incredible record for getting players into the league I am under very little doubt that we would not have a football club to support at all.
I am quite happy to accept that with the resources we have available to us we have found our level and it is abundantly clear that the decisions he makes are in the long term interests of the club and not his own management career. It would be very easy for him with a manager's hat on to not want to sell players or slash the wage bill but thankfully he did not choose that route.
yellowfever
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Re: Squad assessment

Post by yellowfever »

Spot on...
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TrickyDicky
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Re: Squad assessment

Post by TrickyDicky »

Sorry, but I’m going to agree to disagree totally on the Liams our saviour line. If you want to call it survival then we can thank James, Steve Brown and Christine and of course Phil who funded bringing in all the players whom we’ve been able to sell on not including those like Osborne now at Stevenage and Gilchrist (thriving in a lower league who were given away) .
Don’t go back a third time see Howard Kendall and Brian Clough’s failures.
So no I don’t agree with these views as we’ve been nothing more than poor on the field with outdated tactics, a lack of fitness against most teams, an appalling home record and poor coaching and player selection .
We need a change in team management period and I don’t mean moving people upstairs either that won’t work either . How the management and ownership issues will pan out I’ve no idea but we will not progress with the current management duo in situ and that is my personal opinion after 3 years of going backwards on the pitch .
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SfcFPA
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Re: Squad assessment

Post by SfcFPA »

Four iron wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:56 pmThink two of the three sold on were not LW signings. We will never know but another manager may have obtained better transfef fees.
To even suggest that is to suggest that LW has somehow short changed the club in his transfer dealings. That could not be further from the truth.
He has achieved fees where others simply never would have, because by being fair to players he has built a reputation as a manager that young, hungry players can trust and consequently they came here in the first place, developed as a player and more importantly as a person under his tutelage, and became sellable assets because of him.
For all those who complain about us being a selling club, we've never been able to be anything different. That is not a lack of ambition by LW it is a necessity for football at our level. No other manager at our level has a record as good as Liam's at developing and selling players.
This article written by Jimmy Commins back in 1935 goes to show that for clubs like us, playing lower level football the necessity to sell players has always been there.
https://www.southportfootballclub.co.uk ... ella-club/
yellowfever
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Re: Squad assessment

Post by yellowfever »

Four players sold in quick time...How many Managers at National North level have this kind if record? Devarn Green to Scunthorpe Utd (Liam signing) Jack Sampson to AFC Fylde (Alan Lewer ?) Dion Charles and David Morgan (Kevin Davies?)
I can't believe anybody on here would think that we would get a decent fee for Jack-I certainly didn't but we did and Liam did the negotiation to get that- and get a huge wage off the club's hands.
Dion, has to my delight been sold on to Port friend John Coleman at Accrington where SFC DO get a sell on fee if sold? This COULD be a brilliant deal in the future for SFC?
David Morgan too with a sell on although maybe not the same chance-but you never know...
I don't like feeling like a feeder club either- but I don't see an answer to that in 2021.
Undisclosed fees are the norm these days unless you're a top six Premier league club so nothing strange there.Besides, if other clubs know you have money-fees go up surely?
I never remember the amount raised at the good old Sportsman's dinners being announced?

All the deals were done with Liam at the helm whether he bought the players or not, and his expertise at this is without question.Also his relationship with Accy is invaluable and shouldn't be underestimated.
Quite a few of the players on our books at present-could easiy follow suit too..
Four iron
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Re: Squad assessment

Post by Four iron »

yellowfever wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:54 pm Four players sold in quick time...How many Managers at National North level have this kind if record? Devarn Green to Scunthorpe Utd (Liam signing) Jack Sampson to AFC Fylde (Alan Lewer ?) Dion Charles and David Morgan (Kevin Davies?)
I can't believe anybody on here would think that we would get a decent fee for Jack-I certainly didn't but we did and Liam did the negotiation to get that- and get a huge wage off the club's hands.
Dion, has to my delight been sold on to Port friend John Coleman at Accrington where SFC DO get a sell on fee if sold? This COULD be a brilliant deal in the future for SFC?
David Morgan too with a sell on although maybe not the same chance-but you never know...
I don't like feeling like a feeder club either- but I don't see an answer to that in 2021.
Undisclosed fees are the norm these days unless you're a top six Premier league club so nothing strange there.Besides, if other clubs know you have money-fees go up surely?
I never remember the amount raised at the good old Sportsman's dinners being announced?

All the deals were done with Liam at the helm whether he bought the players or not, and his expertise at this is without question.Also his relationship with Accy is invaluable and shouldn't be underestimated.
Quite a few of the players on our books at present-could easiy follow suit too..
League position?
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Ralphy Rylance
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Re: Squad assessment

Post by Ralphy Rylance »

Four iron wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:25 pm

League position?
=1st P0 W0 D0 L0 F0 A0 PTS0
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Four iron
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Re: Squad assessment

Post by Four iron »

yellowfever wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:54 pm Four players sold in quick time...How many Managers at National North level have this kind if record? Devarn Green to Scunthorpe Utd (Liam signing) Jack Sampson to AFC Fylde (Alan Lewer ?) Dion Charles and David Morgan (Kevin Davies?)
I can't believe anybody on here would think that we would get a decent fee for Jack-I certainly didn't but we did and Liam did the negotiation to get that- and get a huge wage off the club's hands.
Dion, has to my delight been sold on to Port friend John Coleman at Accrington where SFC DO get a sell on fee if sold? This COULD be a brilliant deal in the future for SFC?
David Morgan too with a sell on although maybe not the same chance-but you never know...
I don't like feeling like a feeder club either- but I don't see an answer to that in 2021.
Undisclosed fees are the norm these days unless you're a top six Premier league club so nothing strange there.Besides, if other clubs know you have money-fees go up surely?
I never remember the amount raised at the good old Sportsman's dinners being announced?

All the deals were done with Liam at the helm whether he bought the players or not, and his expertise at this is without question.Also his relationship with Accy is invaluable and shouldn't be underestimated.
Quite a few of the players on our books at present-could easiy follow suit too..
League position?
portexileinbath
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Re: Squad assessment

Post by portexileinbath »

SfcFPA wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:20 pm I hesitate to say this for fear of a backlash but if it hadn't been for Liam's careful management of the budget over the past two years and his incredible record for getting players into the league I am under very little doubt that we would not have a football club to support at all.
I am quite happy to accept that with the resources we have available to us we have found our level and it is abundantly clear that the decisions he makes are in the long term interests of the club and not his own management career. It would be very easy for him with a manager's hat on to not want to sell players or slash the wage bill but thankfully he did not choose that route.
Very well put, I am in total agreement with you. It's also worth mentioning some of the loan players we have had Regan being a good example. Some people have berated Accrington for buying our best players, which no doubt they have, but they have paid for them and I would guess the cash generated is why we still have a club to support.
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PortDan1121
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Re: Squad assessment

Post by PortDan1121 »

I feel like the squad lacks a goalscorer massively. Carver and Archer have had their moments but not really proved to be consistent enough. We've replaced the likes of Jason Gilchrist, Devarn Green, Dion Charles with George Newell, Niall Watson, and Connor Woods. Good players yes, but not proven enough for me yet. The loss of Jack Sampson was another disappointment, and now David Morgan who was our top goalscorer last year has gone. Where are the goals going to come from?
Terrace Dweller
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Re: Squad assessment

Post by Terrace Dweller »

Thanks SfcFPA for the link to the fascinating article from 1935.
Really interesting to read the words of the Port manager from so long ago, detailing the struggles of keeping a club with low attendances afloat.
Incredible that after 86 years, the same issues arise and the struggle goes on.
It's testament to the managers/custodians over the years in keeping the club viable.
It's really frustrating to see our best players transferred, but unfortunately appears inevitable as a vital source of income, as well as an incentive for young players to sign for us.
I'm sure Ian and Liam identify with those words of Jimmy Commins!
badger
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Re: Squad assessment

Post by badger »

TrickyDicky wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:49 pm Sorry, but I’m going to agree to disagree totally on the Liams our saviour line. If you want to call it survival then we can thank James, Steve Brown and Christine and of course Phil who funded bringing in all the players whom we’ve been able to sell on not including those like Osborne now at Stevenage and Gilchrist (thriving in a lower league who were given away) .
Don’t go back a third time see Howard Kendall and Brian Clough’s failures.
So no I don’t agree with these views as we’ve been nothing more than poor on the field with outdated tactics, a lack of fitness against most teams, an appalling home record and poor coaching and player selection .
We need a change in team management period and I don’t mean moving people upstairs either that won’t work either . How the management and ownership issues will pan out I’ve no idea but we will not progress with the current management duo in situ and that is my personal opinion after 3 years of going backwards on the pitch .
[/quote

I agree
yellowfever
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Re: Squad assessment

Post by yellowfever »

SfcFPA wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:54 pm
Four iron wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:56 pmThink two of the three sold on were not LW signings. We will never know but another manager may have obtained better transfef fees.
To even suggest that is to suggest that LW has somehow short changed the club in his transfer dealings. That could not be further from the truth.
He has achieved fees where others simply never would have, because by being fair to players he has built a reputation as a manager that young, hungry players can trust and consequently they came here in the first place, developed as a player and more importantly as a person under his tutelage, and became sellable assets because of him.
For all those who complain about us being a selling club, we've never been able to be anything different. That is not a lack of ambition by LW it is a necessity for football at our level. No other manager at our level has a record as good as Liam's at developing and selling players.
This article written by Jimmy Commins back in 1935 goes to show that for clubs like us, playing lower level football the necessity to sell players has always been there.
https://www.southportfootballclub.co.uk ... ella-club/
An excellent article again-couldn't agree more...
Which is why going forward that Liam must be involved at some level-director/advisory role at SFC whatever....It's total ignorance of fans to take for granted the players he has sold on and the income generated from these deals-but it's his decision when he decides to call it a day on team duty front and nobody elses.
I'm sick and tired of repeating the need for "football experience" within the club-totally underestimated by fans who have a habit here of writing off players far too soon- and we're in that position again.Tony McMillan and Dean Winnard would be staying for me for two..
I don't like speculating as no job is up for grabs here but I think we can do better than Jon McCarthy, and I can think of one particular person who would be totally enthused abd excited at the prospect of taking over team matters at SFC-who would work perfectly well with Liam in the background.This is just my opinion so I wouldn't name him on here, but he would be ideal and would jump at the challenge of taking SFC forward and give it a new lease of life-but Liam has to stay involved.
It could work..
Four iron
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Re: Squad assessment

Post by Four iron »

yellowfever wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:46 pm
SfcFPA wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:54 pm
Four iron wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:56 pmThink two of the three sold on were not LW signings. We will never know but another manager may have obtained better transfef fees.
To even suggest that is to suggest that LW has somehow short changed the club in his transfer dealings. That could not be further from the truth.
He has achieved fees where others simply never would have, because by being fair to players he has built a reputation as a manager that young, hungry players can trust and consequently they came here in the first place, developed as a player and more importantly as a person under his tutelage, and became sellable assets because of him.
For all those who complain about us being a selling club, we've never been able to be anything different. That is not a lack of ambition by LW it is a necessity for football at our level. No other manager at our level has a record as good as Liam's at developing and selling players.
This article written by Jimmy Commins back in 1935 goes to show that for clubs like us, playing lower level football the necessity to sell players has always been there.
https://www.southportfootballclub.co.uk ... ella-club/
An excellent article again-couldn't agree more...
Which is why going forward that Liam must be involved at some level-director/advisory role at SFC whatever....It's total ignorance of fans to take for granted the players he has sold on and the income generated from these deals-but it's his decision when he decides to call it a day on team duty front and nobody elses.
I'm sick and tired of repeating the need for "football experience" within the club-totally underestimated by fans who have a habit here of writing off players far too soon- and we're in that position again.Tony McMillan and Dean Winnard would be staying for me for two..
I don't like speculating as no job is up for grabs here but I think we can do better than Jon McCarthy, and I can think of one particular person who would be totally enthused abd excited at the prospect of taking over team matters at SFC-who would work perfectly well with Liam in the background.This is just my opinion so I wouldn't name him on here, but he would be ideal and would jump at the challenge of taking SFC forward and give it a new lease of life-but Liam has to stay involved.
It could work..
Four iron
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Re: Squad assessment

Post by Four iron »

I never said Watson had short changed the club. I said we will never know if some one else could have done better.What I do know is L W has taken us to a new low .
yellowfever
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Re: Squad assessment

Post by yellowfever »

Four iron wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:49 pm I never said Watson had short changed the club. I said we will never know if some one else could have done better.What I do know is L W has taken us to a new low .
Rubbish.
Four iron
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Re: Squad assessment

Post by Four iron »

yellowfever wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:00 pm
Four iron wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:49 pm I never said Watson had short changed the club. I said we will never know if some one else could have done better.What I do know is L W has taken us to a new low .
Rubbish.
Rubbish is the position were in.This squad was picked by Watson and has been a complete faliure.Stick with him and see where we end up.Best of luck .
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Ralphy Rylance
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Re: Squad assessment

Post by Ralphy Rylance »

Four iron wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:49 pm What I do know is L W has taken us to a new low .
Really? 16 points after 14 games.

1980/81 14 points after 14 games

I'm not going to waste my time checking all other seasons in the 6th tier. I've already proved you wrong.
We are the nutters, we come from the sea.
We must be nutters to watch SFC.
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Re: Squad assessment

Post by John Glendenning »

SfcFPA wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:54 pm
Four iron wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:56 pmThink two of the three sold on were not LW signings. We will never know but another manager may have obtained better transfef fees.
To even suggest that is to suggest that LW has somehow short changed the club in his transfer dealings. That could not be further from the truth.
He has achieved fees where others simply never would have, because by being fair to players he has built a reputation as a manager that young, hungry players can trust and consequently they came here in the first place, developed as a player and more importantly as a person under his tutelage, and became sellable assets because of him.
For all those who complain about us being a selling club, we've never been able to be anything different. That is not a lack of ambition by LW it is a necessity for football at our level. No other manager at our level has a record as good as Liam's at developing and selling players.
This article written by Jimmy Commins back in 1935 goes to show that for clubs like us, playing lower level football the necessity to sell players has always been there.
https://www.southportfootballclub.co.uk ... ella-club/
spot on.
YTT
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Re: Squad assessment

Post by YTT »

Don't think anyone can argue with Liam's track record on player sales. As for whether we got market value or good fees we never really know and the cynics amongst us will always insinuate that because it's Scunthorpe, where LW used to Scout, or Accy and the old pals act with Coley or even back in the day John Still at Luton that there is more than meets the eye to standard non-disclosure on the deals.

Fact is we got fees for Green and Sampson and that in itself is an achievement in my book and Morgan was close to the door when LW arrived. Charles always had ability and was well thought of in the game he just needed nurturing and some guidance. Let's hope he continue to progress as i'm sure the sell on is where the real money is in it for us on the deal.

The reality is it's what LW does best and like all Managers he doesn't always get it right (Correia, Muller, Corbett's, Homson-Smith) are testimony to that and the list goes on but that's football.

As for saving the club financially over the last 2 seasons everyone seems to forget that he and IK were around prior to that and therefore by defacto involved in some of that spending. Fair bit of waste as well on the way in the likes of Parry, Lacey, Glynn, Phenix, Corbett. Not sure Winnard would have played the required number of games last season to not have joined that list as well.

It's a game of opinions and don't think clubs selling players at our level is anything new or going to change anytime soon. Even money bags Fylde couldn't hold on to Danny Rowe eventually.

Saviour of SFC, no, past his best as a touchline manager, yes that's just my opinion, good at scouting and recruitment 100% YES his strongest skill set.

Do i think he will be manager of SFC for season 21/22 yes if he wants to be.
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