£2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

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Exiled Port Fan
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Re: £2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

Post by Exiled Port Fan »

2 point deduction for next season also.

The decision about the accusation of misinformation I find very interesting. I recall but might be wrong, but I thought our doctor drove that. As such is that not a serious accusation for the league to level, and do they have evidence to support it because it cause issues for our doctor.
portexileinbath
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Re: £2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

Post by portexileinbath »

I hate having to temper my thoughts or feelings but if I don't there is no way my comments would make it onto this chatroom.
What a farcical decision, are these idiots also in control of the EUs vaccine procurement?.
We should fight this penalty along with all the other clubs
that have been sanctioned and as for crowd funding to pay the fine, most definately not (yet anyway), if the tosspots in control think we have any money they will probably increase the fine.
Lets hope that true football fans up and down the country will hear about this fiasco and do whatever they can to help us get this injustice put right.
portexileinbath
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Re: £2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

Post by portexileinbath »

With regard to poor Dover and their 40K fine, if the penalty isn't withdrawn, I sincerely hope there are some kind hearted footballers, who have come from non league and made it in the big time, that are willing to put their hands in their pockets to help pay it. Or possibly to try passing a hat round the dressing room.
I think all non league fans should make a concerted effort to make as many people in the game aware of what has gone on and the predicament clubs such as "the sanctioned" ones are in, maybe social media can be of assistance in doing that, so I would say to all who use it, get tweeting etc.
Sandgrounder SE
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Re: £2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

Post by Sandgrounder SE »

I can’t work out from Portchat, the club website or the Vanarama statement exactly what this judgment was, and it looks like others are confused too. Are there two fines?
Also is Dover automatically relegated AND given a big points deduction for next season?
In any case, these are difficult decisions for anybody outside the panel to defend. They look like sops to Moneybags clubs which wanted to play on and want to see smaller clubs punished for their temerity in not wanting to go bust.
becbee
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Re: £2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

Post by becbee »

I completely sympathise with Dover and think financial penalties to be ludicrous. However, there's another way of looking at this. Dover have been given a £40,000 fine. All their staff were furloughed weeks ago, their running costs have been the minimum possible since they stopped playing. What about the other 6 NL clubs who voted to stop, who like Dover couldn't afford to continue - but did.
Kings Lynn reckoned earlier this month that it would cost them £300,000 to play on to the end of the season. They (and the others who wanted to stop) now find they'd have been fined £40,000 had they stopped.

The situation re NLS/N clubs is a farce too, most of all Southport's punishment for the Fylde nonsense.
becbee
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Re: £2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

Post by becbee »

Sandgrounder SE wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:27 am I can’t work out from Portchat, the club website or the Vanarama statement exactly what this judgment was, and it looks like others are confused too. Are there two fines?
Also is Dover automatically relegated AND given a big points deduction for next season?
In any case, these are difficult decisions for anybody outside the panel to defend. They look like sops to Moneybags clubs which wanted to play on and want to see smaller clubs punished for their temerity in not wanting to go bust.

Southport's situation reads quite clear to me from the O.S. statement. 2 separate fines of £2000 as the "offences" are deemed to be different.
Dover aren't relegated, the 12 point deduction applies only to next season in NL.
The bigger clubs in NL aren't anti the smaller clubs, they are just looking after their own interests - ie. promotion hopes. Anyway, Sutton can hardly be said to be a big club but they wanted to continue, clearly because of their league position.
Liamisdoingagreatjob
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Re: £2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

Post by Liamisdoingagreatjob »

becbee wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:38 am I completely sympathise with Dover and think financial penalties to be ludicrous. However, there's another way of looking at this. Dover have been given a £40,000 fine. All their staff were furloughed weeks ago, their running costs have been the minimum possible since they stopped playing. What about the other 6 NL clubs who voted to stop, who like Dover couldn't afford to continue - but did.
Kings Lynn reckoned earlier this month that it would cost them £300,000 to play on to the end of the season. They (and the others who wanted to stop) now find they'd have been fined £40,000 had they stopped.

The situation re NLS/N clubs is a farce too, most of all Southport's punishment for the Fylde nonsense.
I get what you're saying but a non league club taking a 300k hit is financially irresponsible surely, let alone bringing in all the playing in a pandemic issues. Dover, without doubt did the right think morally and financially. A shame more clubs at that level didnt stand by what they voted for.
I cant help thinking there must be some grudges against jim parmenter of Dover being played out at national league board level here for taking a stance. That's what it looks like to me.
badger
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Re: £2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

Post by badger »

Liamisdoingagreatjob wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:22 pm And WHO are the ‘independent panel’....how are they selected and by whom? How much were THEY paid? Did the member clubs agree they are appropriate panel members?

Let’s see the league be transparent to its stakeholders.
I do not think their fines would stand up in a court of law.
pault
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Re: £2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

Post by pault »

According to the BBC Sport website a number of clubs are considering to bring about a vote of no confidence in the National League board. Good on them.
superbike999
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Re: £2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

Post by superbike999 »

pault wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:54 am According to the BBC Sport website a number of clubs are considering to bring about a vote of no confidence in the National League board. Good on them.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56549165
superbike999
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Re: £2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

Post by superbike999 »

It also issued a £2,000 fine to Southport for misinformation of the status of a player's Covid-19 test to avoid playing a fixture on dates set by the League.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56544033
Sgreen1234
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Re: £2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

Post by Sgreen1234 »

Brianm
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Re: £2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

Post by Brianm »

The whole process of fining clubs for these breaches is obviously ludicrous and despicable.
Unfortunately, a vote of 'no confidence' in the League Board won't be successful because many clubs wanted to carry on playing to the end of the season, so the proposal would be defeated.
I also very much doubt that an appeal to the FA will be successful for the following reason. Mark Ives is now the General Manager/CEO of The National League since January. He worked for the FA for nearly 20 years including being Head of Judicial Services for the last few years until he recently left last year to set up his own Consultancy and then was appointed by The National League. As far as I am aware he did not have a fall-out with the FA but was their trusted servant for many years.I can't see them going against him in any appeal and in any case, as long as it is shown that the Clubs have broken the rules (which I presume they have) the FA will never go against that as they approved the rules in the first place. Unfortunately common sense plays no part in this.
I agree with everybody else's sentiments on this site, but sadly I believe it won't change anything.
old gold and black
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Re: £2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

Post by old gold and black »

If the captain of the ship (ie the FA) support their subordinates the board of the National League in this matter they too are gravely responsible for this despicable action. Crowd funding and asking highly paid players to pay these fines is not the answer it would just leave the door wide open for these absolute idiots to continue their authoritarian narrow minded actions in the future. There are of course two issues here, one the non playing of schedule fixtures and two the health and wellbeing of players, officials and ancillary staff which both Ian and Liam went at length to underline. Some amateur sports organisations laid down rules guiding what member clubs could do while suspension of their leagues took place during the original lockdown. Even during the relaxation of last summer they still applied guidance and remember that amateur clubs need income as much as professional clubs do if they are to survive particularly those who also have facilities for indoor sports such as darts, snooker, table tennis or badminton and it`s likely that clubs such as this will not survive due to financial difficulties. I know of one local league in this area who are in a poor financial state and will struggle to restart if indoor sports competition is not started again in the near future. The point is I believe it will survive because, and here is the crutch of the matter as long as its member clubs survive they will want to open their doors to competition again because it is the clubs who are the league not some jobsworths who believe rules have to be strictly adhered to particularly when most importantly of all peoples health is of the utmost consideration.
portexileinbath
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Re: £2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

Post by portexileinbath »

I think rather than a vote of no confidence, sectioning under the mental health act is more sppropriate.
GeorgeCarrExcavation
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Re: £2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

Post by GeorgeCarrExcavation »

These National League bods appear to be incompetent ostriches.
Liamisdoingagreatjob
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Re: £2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

Post by Liamisdoingagreatjob »

Brianm wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:54 pm The whole process of fining clubs for these breaches is obviously ludicrous and despicable.
Unfortunately, a vote of 'no confidence' in the League Board won't be successful because many clubs wanted to carry on playing to the end of the season, so the proposal would be defeated.
I also very much doubt that an appeal to the FA will be successful for the following reason. Mark Ives is now the General Manager/CEO of The National League since January. He worked for the FA for nearly 20 years including being Head of Judicial Services for the last few years until he recently left last year to set up his own Consultancy and then was appointed by The National League. As far as I am aware he did not have a fall-out with the FA but was their trusted servant for many years.I can't see them going against him in any appeal and in any case, as long as it is shown that the Clubs have broken the rules (which I presume they have) the FA will never go against that as they approved the rules in the first place. Unfortunately common sense plays no part in this.
I agree with everybody else's sentiments on this site, but sadly I believe it won't change anything.
Yes you have hit on what in my view is the fundamental issue here. Someone with a ‘judicial’ background at the fa now in charge of the league. Is he capable of having empathy with clubs after nearly 20 years in such a role?...and is he really the all-rounder to run a league like this, where you need multiple dimensions to your leadership capabilities? Who knows but it’s not feeling like it to me as a mere fan.
What I really resent is these people who have no accountability to us the true fans, who this level of football is surely most for, taking the money I was more than happy to lose from my season ticket from the club I care deeply about. As far as I’m concerned I gave it to help keep the club running not line his and his cronies pockets or allow a league to function in this way. our club is about the community it serves, as are Dover etc. That’s more important than some inflexible bureaucracy. ‘Sports integrity matters’.....let’s see shall we...
portexileinbath
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Re: £2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

Post by portexileinbath »

GeorgeCarrExcavation wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:23 pm These National League bods appear to be incompetent ostriches.
Is "ostriches" a northern term for arseholes ?
Churchtown Yellow
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Re: £2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

Post by Churchtown Yellow »

I can think of stronger terms for the NL board, but I don’t want James and Nicola to have to go to the trouble of banning me!
portexileinbath
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Re: £2,000 Fine. . Is it fair?

Post by portexileinbath »

Churchtown Yellow wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:08 am I can think of stronger terms for the NL board, but I don’t want James and Nicola to have to go to the trouble of banning me!
With control like that you should be playing for Port not supporting them :D
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