Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

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Re: Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

Post by cavjj »

Big Mac 1985 wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:13 pm 4G?
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Re: Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

Post by Big Mac 1985 »

cavjj wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:16 pm
Big Mac 1985 wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:13 pm 4G?
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Haha, I know, I know! But the argument of having one seems to get stronger every Winter :twisted:
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Re: Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

Post by Exiled Port Fan »

The income side was a reason touted by the new owner of Macclesfield in the documentary on their takeover.
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Re: Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

Post by Formula Port »

Big Mac 1985 wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:13 pm Why don’t the contractors come back, rip up the pitch, then replace with a 4G?

If Grassroot is saying that no pitch can hold up to three home matches a week in the wet periods, then with the Everton agreement (which is needed), we obviously can’t avoid that. It would seem the most preferable solution is to get a 4G installed that we rent out. Contractors can pay for it otherwise they’ll be back every summer for a couple of weeks putting the pitch right.

I work for a club with a 4G pitch and the benefits are very good, to both the owners and the local community.
Why don't we just move to 5aside as well then we only have to pay a smaller squad? 4G is not the way forward.
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Re: Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

Post by Big Mac 1985 »

Formula Port wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:28 pm
Big Mac 1985 wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:13 pm Why don’t the contractors come back, rip up the pitch, then replace with a 4G?

If Grassroot is saying that no pitch can hold up to three home matches a week in the wet periods, then with the Everton agreement (which is needed), we obviously can’t avoid that. It would seem the most preferable solution is to get a 4G installed that we rent out. Contractors can pay for it otherwise they’ll be back every summer for a couple of weeks putting the pitch right.

I work for a club with a 4G pitch and the benefits are very good, to both the owners and the local community.
Why don't we just move to 5aside as well then we only have to pay a smaller squad? 4G is not the way forward.
Why not, Formula Port?
Alan McDonald was more versatile than a Swiss Army knife.
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Re: Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

Post by Ralphy Rylance »

Big Mac 1985 wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:13 pm Why don’t the contractors come back, rip up the pitch, then replace with a 4G?

If Grassroot is saying that no pitch can hold up to three home matches a week in the wet periods, then with the Everton agreement (which is needed), we obviously can’t avoid that. It would seem the most preferable solution is to get a 4G installed that we rent out. Contractors can pay for it otherwise they’ll be back every summer for a couple of weeks putting the pitch right.

I work for a club with a 4G pitch and the benefits are very good, to both the owners and the local community.
Why would the contractors pay for it?
They've presumably done what was asked of them in our specification. If the underlying problems were beyond our budget it's hardly their fault.
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Re: Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

Post by Big Mac 1985 »

Ralphy Rylance wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:03 pm
Big Mac 1985 wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:13 pm Why don’t the contractors come back, rip up the pitch, then replace with a 4G?

If Grassroot is saying that no pitch can hold up to three home matches a week in the wet periods, then with the Everton agreement (which is needed), we obviously can’t avoid that. It would seem the most preferable solution is to get a 4G installed that we rent out. Contractors can pay for it otherwise they’ll be back every summer for a couple of weeks putting the pitch right.

I work for a club with a 4G pitch and the benefits are very good, to both the owners and the local community.
Why would the contractors pay for it?
They've presumably done what was asked of them in our specification. If the underlying problems were beyond our budget it's hardly their fault.
Didn't they admit initial fault with the new pitch when it was first laid? I don't know the full facts on this sorry.
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Re: Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

Post by Ralphy Rylance »

Big Mac 1985 wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:06 pm
Ralphy Rylance wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:03 pm
Big Mac 1985 wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:13 pm Why don’t the contractors come back, rip up the pitch, then replace with a 4G?

If Grassroot is saying that no pitch can hold up to three home matches a week in the wet periods, then with the Everton agreement (which is needed), we obviously can’t avoid that. It would seem the most preferable solution is to get a 4G installed that we rent out. Contractors can pay for it otherwise they’ll be back every summer for a couple of weeks putting the pitch right.

I work for a club with a 4G pitch and the benefits are very good, to both the owners and the local community.
Why would the contractors pay for it?
They've presumably done what was asked of them in our specification. If the underlying problems were beyond our budget it's hardly their fault.
Didn't they admit initial fault with the new pitch when it was first laid? I don't know the full facts on this sorry.
That's my understanding and they came back and supposedly rectified the isssues last summer. Whether the current problems are the same issue i don't know. But i doubt a complete change to 4g forms part of any guarantee of their work.
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Re: Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

Post by Sam »

Grassroot wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:44 am Basically from middle of goal jack Carr end to pine tree side half way line (on the diagonal) needs material removed down to about 4 inch and replaced with good material. If you dig down under the surface of the corner it is drier underneath I will almost guarantee it.
As i've said earlier in the thread, it's basically a bog underneath there. It's absolutely nothing to do with the work on the pitch. That corner has always suffered from drainage problems. This is why KGV had issues when building the sportshall. Every groundsman going back on the pitch for the last 30 years has suffered with drainage problems over there. It's not worse now than it ever has been before, it would take a lot of digging to sort it. Or if you really wanted to think out the box, a lot of soil. You could raise the surface of the pitch with a perimeter supporting wall.

Going down 4 inches isn't going to achieve anything, it will have gone down further than that when the pitch was redone. You'd need to go down multiple of that if you wanted to have an impact.

Andrew Church used to come often to verti-drain that in the winter, this may not be something that is done as frequently. We also used to use have a push/pull waterhog (like this: https://www.durantcricket.co.uk/product ... r-remover/), and have at times borrowed one from Lancashire Cricket club to help get water off the pitch. This is perhaps something the club should invest in at around £4k for a used one, but they are incredibly effective. (https://rtmachinery.co.uk/portfolio-ite ... oval-unit/)

What the old pitch had going for it was that it had a fantastic rootzone. Decades and decade of never being ripped out and just continual growth, it drained well for what it was. The pitch needed new drainage channels without a doubt, we couldn't have kept the old drains, they were simply not fit for purpose, but they were of their time. We used to have to buy the cheap submergable pumps from B&q and run them till they blew up, pumping it on to meols cop field.

New pitches need time to bed. Ripping up this pitch will not help, the problem will persist and come back again and a again. What clubs higher up the pyramid do is have the pitch lights that we have for the goals, but all over. Promoting year round growth, but thats not cheap. We can not afford it.

What we used to do was 'divoting', its something you occasionally see at half time higher up the leagues where hoards of groundstaff come on to the pitch at half time, turning divots back the right way and closing gashes in the pitch. This was the first pitch care routine done on the pitch. But it was laborious, hours and hours of just walking up and down the pitch finding the holes and smacking them closed, or in the summer filling with soil/sand/seed mix as it would fill the hole and regrow quickly.
From looking at the close up pictures i'll be amazed if someone claims its done to the same degree as we used to do it. But by doing this, this meant when you followed up with the roller, you were rolling everything that was green side up. Rollering without divoting leaves mud facing the sky. This will not drain well, and will hold water and will have bare patches. This also means the pitch isn't as strong as it could be, the muddy patches grow.

Divoting is a timesink, but worthwhile, but the club aren't going to get away with employing an impressionable 18 year old fan to do 50 hour weeks for £500 a month to do that any more. They probably can't afford the dedicated, full time, grounds person it needs. You can not rely on contractors.

If we aren't going to do divoting, or afford a full time quality groundsman, or running pitch lights all year round a ride on waterhog should be bought.
Ralphy Rylance wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:27 pm Crikey. The water bill must be huge. I'd assumed we were recycling the water
The waterbill is a fixed amount for sports ground, or at least was, it wasn't metered and it was basically pittance. I dont think it was even 4 figures. The club is also immune to any hosepipe bans too.

TL/DR: The major pitch work wont be to blame, needs greater level of ongoing care. That corner will always suffer with problems.
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Re: Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

Post by couille du chien »

The problem with the pitch getting waterlogged only happens when it rains before or during a game(grassroots)yes,but we never have any problems with the pitch after the final whistle,perhaps we should have kick off after full time 😜
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Re: Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

Post by Unibond Awakes »


Quoted from Sam


“Andrew Church used to come often to verti-drain that in the winter, this may not be something that is done as frequently. We also used to use have a push/pull waterhog (like this: https://www.durantcricket.co.uk/product ... r-remover/), and have at times borrowed one from Lancashire Cricket club to help get water off the pitch. This is perhaps something the club should invest in at around £4k for a used one, but they are incredibly effective. (https://rtmachinery.co.uk/portfolio-ite ... oval-unit/)

What the old pitch had going for it was that it had a fantastic rootzone. Decades and decade of never being ripped out and just continual growth, it drained well for what it was. The pitch needed new drainage channels without a doubt, we couldn't have kept the old drains, they were simply not fit for purpose, but they were of their time. We used to have to buy the cheap submergable pumps from B&q and run them till they blew up, pumping it on to meols cop field.

New pitches need time to bed. Ripping up this pitch will not help, the problem will persist and come back again and a again. What clubs higher up the pyramid do is have the pitch lights that we have for the goals, but all over. Promoting year round growth, but thats not cheap. We can not afford it.

What we used to do was 'divoting', its something you occasionally see at half time higher up the leagues where hoards of groundstaff come on to the pitch at half time, turning divots back the right way and closing gashes in the pitch. This was the first pitch care routine done on the pitch. But it was laborious, hours and hours of just walking up and down the pitch finding the holes and smacking them closed, or in the summer filling with soil/sand/seed mix as it would fill the hole and regrow quickly.
From looking at the close up pictures i'll be amazed if someone claims its done to the same degree as we used to do it. But by doing this, this meant when you followed up with the roller, you were rolling everything that was green side up. Rollering without divoting leaves mud facing the sky. This will not drain well, and will hold water and will have bare patches. This also means the pitch isn't as strong as it could be, the muddy patches grow.

Divoting is a timesink, but worthwhile, but the club aren't going to get away with employing an impressionable 18 year old fan to do 50 hour weeks for £500 a month to do that any more. They probably can't afford the dedicated, full time, grounds person it needs. You can not rely on contractors.

If we aren't going to do divoting, or afford a full time quality groundsman, or running pitch lights all year round a ride on waterhog should be bought.
Ralphy Rylance wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:27 pm Crikey. The water bill must be huge. I'd assumed we were recycling the water
The waterbill is a fixed amount for sports ground, or at least was, it wasn't metered and it was basically pittance. I dont think it was even 4 figures. The club is also immune to any hosepipe bans too.

TL/DR: The major pitch work wont be to blame, needs greater level of ongoing care. That corner will always suffer with problems.”

A well written and enlightening article Sam thanks for the explanation.... it’s clear the pitch “renovation” has opened an alternative can of worms with the drainage issues and only a certain passage of time which Southport don’t process because of the harsh economic realities would help alleviate the situation.
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Re: Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

Post by cobby7 »

The pitch is not played on as much as the days when we had a reserve team.
The difference is that the Everton games are on a Monday
Army they? If so no time for recovery.
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Re: Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

Post by Ralphy Rylance »

The club advertised a vacancy for ground operative in July. Was the position filled?
Haven't seen anyone on the pitch replacing divots or forking this season. There used to be a team of them on the pitch at half time.
Granted it seems there are some issues that aren't likely to be resolved but we need to do the best we can with maintenance but, and I'm happy to be proved wrong, from what Sam says we seem to be doing less than we used to.
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Re: Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

Post by portexileinbath »

Ralphy Rylance wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:04 pm
george wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:27 pm I see some people think that are pitch is not the worst around, and to debate and argue your point of view is great,however the debate or arguments may go about the state of the pitch, let's remember one fact.
As far as I'm aware the only match called off this bank holiday weekend due to a water logged pitch was ours,......go figure
Have you considered that the country doesn't all get the exact same weather? :roll:
It's always wet in Bath :D
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Re: Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

Post by Exiled Port Fan »

Sam, one of the most detailed posts on this site ever, cheers, really informative and good to read.
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Re: Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

Post by Rabbit »

Ralphy Rylance wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:28 pm The club advertised a vacancy for ground operative in July. Was the position filled?
Haven't seen anyone on the pitch replacing divots or forking this season. There used to be a team of them on the pitch at half time.
Granted it seems there are some issues that aren't likely to be resolved but we need to do the best we can with maintenance but, and I'm happy to be proved wrong, from what Sam says we seem to be doing less than we used to.
Volunteers. Not enough of us im afraid and we dont all want to work on match day as well as during week. To repeat..there are no paid staff looking after the ground and contractors do the pitch.
Divotong done wrong can make matters worse by the way
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Re: Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

Post by yellowfever »

Guiseley are going to a 4G pitch next season,basically because they can't play football on grass... Buxton are well on their way up to this division with one...I'm tired of the debate on these.Sutton Utd and Harrogate got into the EFL with them and then had to go back to grass.In fairness to them both, they've both adapted well to going back to the grass-but the advantage given to them in the first place to get them there is obvious?
It just shouldn't be allowed.
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Re: Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

Post by Ralphy Rylance »

Rabbit wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:29 pm

Volunteers. Not enough of us im afraid and we dont all want to work on match day as well as during week. To repeat..there are no paid staff looking after the ground and contractors do the pitch.
Divotong done wrong can make matters worse by the way
https://southportfc.net/ground-operative-vacancy/ so this post hasn't been filled? And the apprentice ground staff referred to don't exist either?
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Re: Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

Post by Rabbit »

contractors do the pitch.
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Re: Southport v Curzon - Sun 2nd Jan - 3pm (Match Off)

Post by Rabbit »

Ralphy Rylance wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:24 pm
Rabbit wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:29 pm

Volunteers. Not enough of us im afraid and we dont all want to work on match day as well as during week. To repeat..there are no paid staff looking after the ground and contractors do the pitch.
Divotong done wrong can make matters worse by the way
https://southportfc.net/ground-operative-vacancy/ so this post hasn't been filled? And the apprentice ground staff referred to don't exist either?

Details of staff under Club information on web site
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