Marcus Carver

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portexileinbath
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Re: Marcus Carver

Post by portexileinbath »

puskas wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:13 pm
Redrobe fan wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 7:33 pm
puskas wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:40 pm

I have slept in the last 40 years :)
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David_1276
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Re: Marcus Carver

Post by David_1276 »

Big Mac 1985 wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:22 pm

I admire the passion but your realism is way off. Marcus has a young family and an opportunity to play full time professional football in the football league. No guarantee this opportunity comes around again for a variety of reasons: drop in form or an injury being two. He’s ‘probably’ signed a 2/3 year contract as some has mentioned above on a professional contract which gives him a nice contract at his age.

The bit about comparing Hartlepool to Barcelona is something I don’t understand - he could go to Hartlepool and bang in 40 goals in the next two seasons - he’ll be remembered and probably get a bigger move after that.

I think you’re being a bit unfair on the club. It’s been commented widely in this thread that we can’t be seen to keep hold of players who will obviously have an ambition to go pro.. Instead, we should be helping them. No harm in that. If they’re performing well, it usually means we are as a result: which is true right now.

Can’t speak for why players may stay at their clubs for a long time, other than out of happiness and being with a hometown club perhaps. Dale at Blyth was a class act but was there for over 500 games (don’t fact check me 🤣). Happiness is key. And remember, a lot of these lads are semi pro so their other job may be more important than their football and more of a reason to keep them in that area or at that club. Again, that shouldn’t be used against someone. In our latter years in the National League, one or two posters continually said that we were getting the worst pro players available by being full time; rather than the best semi-pro players by being part time.

As I said, I enjoy your passion, but not sure you’ve got a grasp of the full situation. Every player is different at this level, there is no general consensus.

Good luck to MC.
I agree there is no guarantee he'll make it until the end of this season maintaining his current level of form, and although I doubt he'll pick up an injury (the guy is hard as nails and nothing seems to phase him) but equally, what if he suffers a form drop or an injury whilst at Hartlepool? I doubt they'd be as accommodating as we have with, say, Newell, and he'd be without a club before he turns 30. I hope to God it never happens, but he'd be in better stead here if it did.

My point about Barcelona perhaps wasn't illustrated as I'd meant it- I more meant that here, Carver could become a legend if he stays a mere 5 more months. At Hartlepool, as much as he is very good at this level of football, I unfortunately doubt he'll be able to have anywhere near the impact he's had here and he'll play a bit part role at best. He's never shown this level of form before in his career, and he's been playing 10 years so I'm not sure whether he'll be able to maintain it 2 leagues above, as he struggled 2 years ago in the NL. Footballers change, and there are late bloomers, although for me taking a risk on a 28 year old Conference North striker based on half a season of excellent form is a little knee-jerk. I hope he does well, but if I were him I'd want to prove it to myself that it wasn't a flash-in-the-pan and I had the ability to play in the Football League by finishing as top goalscorer in the NLN.

I understand we can't be seen to be holding onto players, and I fully understand why that's the case; in order to show generally young players, that if they perform here they may well get a move into the EFL. For all of the other recent sales I've been nothing but happy for the player, making that step up to a level much higher than ours and us being adequately recompensed for it. But with Carver it's slightly different. We're finally in a position where that one top class talent of a player is the difference between 4th and 9th, and finally able to realistically see ourselves in the league above. It all just feels very silly to me, we have the money to sustain ourselves from the Dion sale and it looks like Carver has a strong affinity for the club as-is, so if Liam sat him down and told him he could leave at the end of the season and that we'll even help facilitate a move, but that right now we aren't in a position to let him go, I don't think he'd kick up much of a fuss. Then those Hartlepool rumors could have been neatly tucked under the carpet until the Summer.

I wouldn't want to stand in his way or stop him from getting that dream move to a North East shithole like Hartlepool, and I understand his reasoning behind it; but as I say, he has the chance to make himself a legend here.

I think I've got a decent enough grasp of the generally acceptable formula of buying and selling players at this level, I've seen a fair few during my time supporting the club. Although it isn't a one-size-fits-all application, selling someone who's been so crucial to us for the sake of £20k or whatever it'll be 5 months earlier than we would otherwise have had it seems almost unfathomable; just as we start to get good again, just as this atmosphere is being recognised by the club and just as results begin to go our way, we sell our best player and we're back to square 1.

I'm afraid there's no defending that, especially after we've just had a huge boost with the Dion money. We don't have to sell him, we aren't in a position where we need an extra 20k or the club goes under, so just for once can we scrap our 'selling club' mentality for 5 months.

In regards to my passion, maybe it's the veil of perception I have before my eyes given my age, that everything is rosy. I do doubt that myself, as I've been in attendance as a season ticket holder since 2010, when I was 6, and there was most certainly not very much rosyness in the period from 2013 onwards. This is the first time the team has ever felt like 'we might just do something this year' during my recent memory, and when we sell our best players for nothing but to keep up an image and to cower out of potentially slightly upsetting someone by keeping them for 5 months it's a damn surprise I have any passion left at all.
Last edited by David_1276 on Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
george
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Re: Marcus Carver

Post by george »

As for the above,we'll said sir
Sundance
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Re: Marcus Carver

Post by Sundance »

Wonder if Marcus came to the attention of Hartlepool because of the North East link. We played a fair few games against Spenymoor, Darlington and Blyth. Managers speak on the phone don’t they? Oh yes I almost forgot he also is near the top of the goalscorers league. He also loves a high press and puts himself about. He gives centrbacks a hard time. He has a good personality and work ethic and will enhance any changing room. Hartlepool are getting a great player, but they know that.
Exiled Port Fan
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Re: Marcus Carver

Post by Exiled Port Fan »

Liam was a Hartlepool for a bit too before returning here?

With answer to the question about why some players leave and others stay, the simple answer is that Marcus is ambitious and wants to know how far he can go. The others are comfortable and so stay put on a reliable wage and afteenoons football. But they will always wonder how good they were, Marcus will find out and I hope he smashes it!
micky finn
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Re: Marcus Carver

Post by micky finn »

It might be a mistake, but he has to take it. As the Aussies say "Don't die wondering", good luck to Marcus and thanks for helping to put us in the decent position we are in both in terms of points but also that we will get a fee for his skill, hard work and talent.
David999
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Re: Marcus Carver

Post by David999 »

Like every other Sfc fan I’m desperate to hang on to Marcus but feel I’m not being fair to him . We were all surprised that we got him in the first place bit I’m convinced he came after he and Liam a chat on his next stage as it arrived - so a return to the EFL has been earned - yet if he were to stay - I would celebrate for quite a while ! What a player - gives it all amd deserves every success - thanks Marcus if it is goodbye - the overhead kick to beat Chorley will live with me forever !
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Re: Marcus Carver

Post by cavjj »

Gone. Now confirmed by SFC and Hartlepool.
Stratford Excile
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Re: Marcus Carver

Post by Stratford Excile »

David_1276 wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:57 pm
Big Mac 1985 wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:22 pm

I admire the passion but your realism is way off. Marcus has a young family and an opportunity to play full time professional football in the football league. No guarantee this opportunity comes around again for a variety of reasons: drop in form or an injury being two. He’s ‘probably’ signed a 2/3 year contract as some has mentioned above on a professional contract which gives him a nice contract at his age.

The bit about comparing Hartlepool to Barcelona is something I don’t understand - he could go to Hartlepool and bang in 40 goals in the next two seasons - he’ll be remembered and probably get a bigger move after that.

I think you’re being a bit unfair on the club. It’s been commented widely in this thread that we can’t be seen to keep hold of players who will obviously have an ambition to go pro.. Instead, we should be helping them. No harm in that. If they’re performing well, it usually means we are as a result: which is true right now.

Can’t speak for why players may stay at their clubs for a long time, other than out of happiness and being with a hometown club perhaps. Dale at Blyth was a class act but was there for over 500 games (don’t fact check me 🤣). Happiness is key. And remember, a lot of these lads are semi pro so their other job may be more important than their football and more of a reason to keep them in that area or at that club. Again, that shouldn’t be used against someone. In our latter years in the National League, one or two posters continually said that we were getting the worst pro players available by being full time; rather than the best semi-pro players by being part time.

As I said, I enjoy your passion, but not sure you’ve got a grasp of the full situation. Every player is different at this level, there is no general consensus.

Good luck to MC.
I agree there is no guarantee he'll make it until the end of this season maintaining his current level of form, and although I doubt he'll pick up an injury (the guy is hard as nails and nothing seems to phase him) but equally, what if he suffers a form drop or an injury whilst at Hartlepool? I doubt they'd be as accommodating as we have with, say, Newell, and he'd be without a club before he turns 30. I hope to God it never happens, but he'd be in better stead here if it did.

My point about Barcelona perhaps wasn't illustrated as I'd meant it- I more meant that here, Carver could become a legend if he stays a mere 5 more months. At Hartlepool, as much as he is very good at this level of football, I unfortunately doubt he'll be able to have anywhere near the impact he's had here and he'll play a bit part role at best. He's never shown this level of form before in his career, and he's been playing 10 years so I'm not sure whether he'll be able to maintain it 2 leagues above, as he struggled 2 years ago in the NL. Footballers change, and there are late bloomers, although for me taking a risk on a 28 year old Conference North striker based on half a season of excellent form is a little knee-jerk. I hope he does well, but if I were him I'd want to prove it to myself that it wasn't a flash-in-the-pan and I had the ability to play in the Football League by finishing as top goalscorer in the NLN.

I understand we can't be seen to be holding onto players, and I fully understand why that's the case; in order to show generally young players, that if they perform here they may well get a move into the EFL. For all of the other recent sales I've been nothing but happy for the player, making that step up to a level much higher than ours and us being adequately recompensed for it. But with Carver it's slightly different. We're finally in a position where that one top class talent of a player is the difference between 4th and 9th, and finally able to realistically see ourselves in the league above. It all just feels very silly to me, we have the money to sustain ourselves from the Dion sale and it looks like Carver has a strong affinity for the club as-is, so if Liam sat him down and told him he could leave at the end of the season and that we'll even help facilitate a move, but that right now we aren't in a position to let him go, I don't think he'd kick up much of a fuss. Then those Hartlepool rumors could have been neatly tucked under the carpet until the Summer.

I wouldn't want to stand in his way or stop him from getting that dream move to a North East shithole like Hartlepool, and I understand his reasoning behind it; but as I say, he has the chance to make himself a legend here.

I think I've got a decent enough grasp of the generally acceptable formula of buying and selling players at this level, I've seen a fair few during my time supporting the club. Although it isn't a one-size-fits-all application, selling someone who's been so crucial to us for the sake of £20k or whatever it'll be 5 months earlier than we would otherwise have had it seems almost unfathomable; just as we start to get good again, just as this atmosphere is being recognised by the club and just as results begin to go our way, we sell our best player and we're back to square 1.

I'm afraid there's no defending that, especially after we've just had a huge boost with the Dion money. We don't have to sell him, we aren't in a position where we need an extra 20k or the club goes under, so just for once can we scrap our 'selling club' mentality for 5 months.

In regards to my passion, maybe it's the veil of perception I have before my eyes given my age, that everything is rosy. I do doubt that myself, as I've been in attendance as a season ticket holder since 2010, when I was 6, and there was most certainly not very much rosyness in the period from 2013 onwards. This is the first time the team has ever felt like 'we might just do something this year' during my recent memory, and when we sell our best players for nothing but to keep up an image and to cower out of potentially slightly upsetting someone by keeping them for 5 months it's a damn surprise I have any passion left at all.

Good post and sums up my feelings too.

To sell out top goalscorer for a small amount does not show that SFC has any real ambition to give real hope to our long suffering supporters.

Might make sense to Marcus Carver but not to me.
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PortDan1121
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Re: Marcus Carver

Post by PortDan1121 »

Glad that he has got the move he's deserved. Great move for himself and his family for him to go back to full-time football. Would have been stupid for us to block his move back to the EFL especially at 28. He is also out of contract in the Summer so it made sense to cash in now over him signing a 6-month extension and then possibly have nobody come calling for him in the Summer. We could do with a replacement but I am looking forward to seeing Archer play with Newell up top. Good Luck Marcus!
Exiled
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Re: Marcus Carver

Post by Exiled »

So let's imagine that we blocked this move. That would almost certainly upset/anger an ambitious player like Carver. As his contract expires in the summer he then loses motivation/form and either stops scoring, or stops playing, and then leaves for free in the summer. The worst of both worlds for everyone involved. I really don't see how the club had any other option?
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Big Mac 1985
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Re: Marcus Carver

Post by Big Mac 1985 »

Not sure where the discussion is really?

He’s a semi pro player being offered a full time contract at a professional club. Doesn’t matter what we think. This decision is the players and rightly so. It’s a decision for him. Not sure why him staying for another five months makes much sense to him. It’s nothing to do with a loyalty. It’s about his own ambition and I certainly respect that. Liam has given him a platform and an opportunity and he’s taken it. Well done, Marcus. The rest is irrelevant really. We’ve got some money and moved another player in to the league. I don’t see how that damages our ambition…as long as some money is reinvested.

We’ve just come out of lockdowns. The club may financially be ok but it’s not in an arrogant position to turn money away.

And as for the nice surprise of Dion cash. Yeh £75k is great, but he was being touted for a seven figure move not so long ago. You could argue we’ve not got as much as we thought we would.

Realistically, this move makes total sense for Marcus and the club.
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YELLOWTAXI
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Re: Marcus Carver

Post by YELLOWTAXI »

£20,000 seems incredibly low for a striker in form if that amount is correct, and yes I know he's only got 6 months left on his contract.
Hartlepool season ticket holder has also said 20k to me on Twitter
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Re: Marcus Carver

Post by Ralphy Rylance »

YELLOWTAXI wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:37 am £20,000 seems incredibly low for a striker in form if that amount is correct, and yes I know he's only got 6 months left on his contract.
Hartlepool season ticket holder has also said 20k to me on Twitter
How would a season ticket holder know what the undisclosed fee was?
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YELLOWTAXI
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Re: Marcus Carver

Post by YELLOWTAXI »

We all have sources within our clubs
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Re: Marcus Carver

Post by Ralphy Rylance »

YELLOWTAXI wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:05 pm We all have sources within our clubs
So can you tell us with certainty every undisclosed fee we've ever paid and received?
Last edited by Ralphy Rylance on Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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YELLOWTAXI
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Re: Marcus Carver

Post by YELLOWTAXI »

Nope and I didn't say that Mr Grumpy!
Hopefully add ons included knowing Liam as we do. Appearance, goals and sell on. I only mention the 29k figure as someone else mentioned the same amount on here. I did put "if true" on my original post.
siddle
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Re: Marcus Carver

Post by siddle »

It's not £20,000.
YELLOWTAXI
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Re: Marcus Carver

Post by YELLOWTAXI »

siddle wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:30 pm It's not £20,000.
Substantially more Siddle?
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Re: Marcus Carver

Post by cavjj »

I heard it's £700m
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